Well, that was fun. AU loses its third game in a row, 67-48 against the Florida Gators at the Verizon Center. Sorry again that we didn't have the liveblog. Sometimes our schedules just aren't conducive to doing them. Unfortunately, this was one of those times. Ah well. In any event, here is the AUEagles recap, the AP recap, and the box score. For the second straight game, I'm not going to review how things went in the Good, Bad, and Ugly format. I think I'm going to abandon that format from now on, actually. Here are my reasons why, then I'll talk about the game:
First, Good, Bad, and Ugly has been decreasingly enjoyable for me to write. This is because I feel badly about labeling our players' performances either as "Bad" or "Ugly." I'm not opposed to criticizing their performances (I'm going to criticize a number of them tonight, for example), I just think it's unduly negative to categorize them as such in broad categories. Second, the Good, Bad, and Ugly format doesn't allow for nuances of description. If, for example, some aspects of a player's game were good but others were bad or ugly, it makes it difficult to do the write-up. Third, I wasn't really using the Ugly category. Because of reason one, I was never going to put a player in the Ugly category. That again made the format less useful. If anyone misses this format terribly, I'm sorry. I'll listen to compelling reasons why I should continue it, but otherwise I will probably continue without it.
On another note, I need a new name for the recap. "Random Thoughts About the Game" just doesn't have the same gravitas, so come up with something good for me.
Anyway, to the game.
- Again, you can't really be surprised we dropped this game. Florida was just upset by Central Florida. The odds of them dropping games back to back against CF and AU was pretty low. If they'd beaten Central Florida and come in cocky against us, maybe we'd have a better shot. But to play against a #18 ranked Florida team with a chip on its shoulder? Yeah that's a daunting task. So you can't be surprised. Like against WVU, we were overmatched. Florida is a tremendously talented and athletic team with a lot of depth. We had a shot, but it wasn't a great one. We squandered too many opportunities to capitalize on whatever small odds we had. The final score of this game actually should have been closer. UF went on a big run in the last 8 minutes or so and pushed a 9 point lead to 21.
- Defense again left a lot to be desired today. They shot just under 50% for the game. A lot of this is the depth and athleticism, but you could hear JJ going hoarse bellowing "ROTATE" the entire game. Kept leaving guys open to get the open shot. Kind of wish we had shown a bit more of that 1-3-1 zone today, because we didn't match up well man-to-man at many positions.
- If my life came down to the odds of one of our players hitting a wide open shot or my surviving a round of Russian Roulette, I think I'd probably have to take my chances with the revolver. I was baffled by the number of wide open shots we missed today. Vlad especially. Even the announcers remarked that Vlad seemed to have missed every single wide open shot he had but had a much better percentage when he was guarded. These misses weren't all by Vlad, but a lot of them were since he took more than a third of our shots and also had 25% of our misses.
- Nice job by our backcourt against Kenny Boynton. Yes, the rim helped us a bit (since he went 0-9 and couldn't buy a bucket), but he came into this game averaging almost 15 points a game, and left with a goose egg. That's a solid job. Boynton did pick up 7 assists, but you're never going to completely shut down all facets of Boynton's game.
- Really don't understand why we didn't get Lumpkins more touches. 7 shots? That's it? I know the Gator frontcourt is tremendously talented, but pound it inside to the big guy a little more, see what he can do. 6 points just isn't going to do it. Nice job picking up the 8 boards though, Lump.
- Nice game from Troy today. Leads all scorers with 17 on 6-8 shooting. I'd kind of like to see Troy attack the boards a bit more though. As athletic as he is, I think he should be pulling down more boards than he is now. Troy did a nice job matching up athletically with the Gators.
- Wayne Simon II made an appearance in this game today and made a nice play in the closing moments. On a 2 on 1 with Troy, Wayne made the intelligent move and delivered the perfect no look bounce pass that Troy put in the basket. Nice work. I'd like to see more of Wayne, and I'm sure we will, but just not this year.
- We did a pretty poor job against the defensive pressure we faced today. 17 turnovers, many of them caused by sloppy passing and picked pockets, crippled us. Those turnovers allowed Florida to run the floor, which we did not defend well against at all.
- Nice second half adjustment against Chandler Parsons. He blew us up in the first half, but was held relatively quiet in the second half. Nice defensive effort to shut him down there.
- Might as well get this out of the way because it's guaranteed to come out again in the comments: I want to see Hendra get time at the point when Hinkle becomes eligible. I'll believe the "he'll turn it over constantly" argument when I see it. With Hendra at the point, Troy can move over to the 2, which is where he'll be way oversized in the PL. Hinkle can move to the 3. That will put five weapons on the offensive end. Right now on the offensive end we have four weapons and one of two guys who dribbles outside the perimeter and doesn't bring any spark to the offense. Sorry, Danny and Steve, I think you both have great qualities, and you're both good enough to get us through PL play with a decent record, but if we get to the NCAA tournament, we're going to get eaten alive at the PG position the way things are right now. At least show me Hendra at the point, JJ. Prove to me that he can't do it, and then I'll shut my gaping piehole and gladly welcome back the Luptak/Munoz platoon if Hendra stumbles. Until then, I think we're missing a chance to really improve this team and put the best five guys out there (once Hinkle is eligible, that is).
I think that's it. I welcome your discussion in the comments, per usual.
Pro deo et patria and GO EAGLES!
well considering this was the final game without Hinkle, hopefully that will start now. But I'm going to place doubt on it because I just don't see Hendra learning the entire offense from the point guard position that quickly.
ReplyDeletespeaking of which, can we get like a profile on Hinkle from you guys? I've seen him around campus and he seems like a big guy but I don't know about any aspects about his game.
Thanks for all that you do B^3 and Joshua love your site.
My name is AUstudentSam but its not working at the moment so i'm going as anonymous.
I strongly agree that Nick should be playing the point when Hinkle arrives, but I'd settle for a Munoz/Blake or Luptak/Blake platoon. We just need someone at the point to be a scoring threat.
ReplyDeleteI was actually quite impressed when we cut the second half deficit down to 8 with like 7 and a half remaining. Granted, it was all downhill from there, but I think they showed some resilience there. Holding Florida to 67 is an accomplishment, and shutting out Boynton even more so.
ReplyDeleteGood god does Vlad need to stop shooting so many threes. I know he can make them, but going 1-9 from behind the arc and passing up better shot opportunities is unacceptable. He had a couple of great 3-point plays where he made ridiculous contested shots, and I'd like to see him work it inside like that more often.
Totally agree with what you're saying with Luptak/Muñoz. They are truly an offensive black hole out there, and their dribbling doesn't impress me either. I think the defining moment may have been when Luptak finally drove the ball into the paint for once, and then proceed to back it out past the line without passing. Also, 6 turnovers between the two of them. Ugh. Hendra is at least as competent with dribbling as they are, and he has so much more to offer in terms of shooting and passing the ball. Notice how he regularly leads the team in assists despite not being the PG.
Great game for Troy, Lump was very solid even though he didn't get the ball that much, and Tony showed flashes of brilliance in his 5 minutes, pulling down a nice offensive rebound and getting a hustle steal.
I still think this is a team that can dominate the PL, but we're going to really need to shape up if we want to really compete against non-league opponents of Florida or WVU's caliber.
After seeing Hendra exhibit some moves that received positive remarks from the commentators, it makes plenty of sense to keep the four offensive weapons on the floor at the same time. Today, only Nick, Vlad, Lump and Troy scored points (aside from one field goal from Luptak).
ReplyDeleteHinkle is a highly touted defender, this coupled with four scoring threats on the floor at the same time makes B^3 suggested lineup very palatable. Although JJ has said that Danny now has shoulders to drive, he has simply not done it this year, and when he does the results do not often bear fruit. Hendra led AU with 4 assist today, and has been the only Eagle to show some success while driving to the basket from the perimeter.
I watched Navy beat GW today. Navy has athletic guards that are able to inside. So, AU will not be able to find permanent refuge from quick guards once league play begins.
Additionally, it was nice to see Wayne play for the 56 or so seconds that he did. I would really like to see him run up and down the court for a few consecutive minutes. Also, it is worth noting that JJ played Wayne but never put in Blake. So, it seems like Blake's drive to the basket at the end of the WVU had little impact on his playing time.
B^3's post Hinkle lineup suggesting is very attractive, and one that I would like to see attempted as well. In fact, it would be interesting to see a poll of how many think that the starting lineup for the first game in which Hinkle becomes eligible will be Hendra, Troy, Hinkle, Vlad and Lump, or will Luptak still be in as the starting pg?
This was my first game of the season (I was the anon who asked about the Tony/Lump comparison a few days ago).
ReplyDeleteI thought our biggest problem was not matching Florida's intensity. It seemed during the last 10 minutes of the 1st half and 1st 5 minutes of the 2nd half we lacked intensity and seemed to be going through the motions. Obviously can't do that against a team like UF.
We had some early success getting it inside to Lump and we went away from that. I wish we gone to him more.
Vlad was 1-9 from beyond the arc, and the team was 4-15. Oy. I know sometimes when you play in bigger arenas, the basket, the deeper seating in the stands makes the basket seem closer and messes with depth perception. I'm not excusing the poor shooting, but offering one possible reason why it occurred today.
I agree about putting Hendra at the point. Considering how big a role he played today in breaking the UF press, I agree it's worth a shot.
All that being said, I think we have as good of a chance as anyone to win the PL. It may only mean a play-in game or a 16 seed, but it's still better than nothing.
AU Alum - ask and you shall receive. Poll is up now.
ReplyDeleteI want to reiterate my position on this. I think we could run easily to a 10-4 record in the PL and win the PL tourney with the Luptak/Munoz platoon we have now. I'm not saying we're going to fall apart if they stay on. But, I think the team, as a whole, has a much higher potential ceiling with Hendra running the point and Hinkle, Brewer, Moldoveanu, Lumpkins starting. Luptak/Munoz is the safer bet, but it's the bet that will see us never able to beat even a middling major conference team. Give Hendra a shot and see if it clicks, if it does, we could be a potentially very strong team. So far I don't think we've played as well as we could. JJ's comments to various outlets have indicated he feels similarly.
Thanks B^3.
ReplyDeletea few things. First there is no way Hinkle starts his first game. Vlad didn't start against Depaul last year (and I think he might have come off the bench in the horrible loss to UMBC in the next game.
ReplyDeleteAlso @Senioritis- the reason for the breakdown in the last 8 minutes was purely because the Eagles' legs were just exhausted. Once your legs go out, you commit silly fouls and you give up offensive rebounds which leads to more points. It wasn't a lack of intensity, the guys were just exhausted. John Feinstein kept commenting on it on TV, as well.
Luptak put the ball on the floor very well against Florida pressure. I think getting time for Hendra at the point is pure fancy. I suppose anything is possible, but I would be very surprised he got a second there.
ReplyDeleteI don't care who starts. I would just like to see certain combinations out there work so we don't have to rely on Vlad hitting 3s. He's a good outside shooter, but not automatic and not as good as some of the better teams we face. We showed good competence on the boards and we played pretty good defense without fouling.
Fro AU, one of the most interesting developments of the game was that Brewer covered Boynton, the Florida guard. In a couple of moments down the court, Brewer even got some time defending Walker, their point guard. I think this bodes very well for the future since Boynton didn't score a point and Walker, a speedy 5-8, could not maneuver around Brewer.
I was also happy to see us throw some zone at Florida, including a 1-3-1 with Brewer at the point! Excellent. Having a 6-5 guard at the top of a 1-3-1 is hard to beat. I think this is a winning defense for AU if we can get used to playing it and are able to box out well (which is always problematic in a zone).
We need Bake at the point. He has guts and balls to penetrate and take chances. Luptak/Munoz gives us absolutely nothing on both ends..
ReplyDeletename for the recap "Snap Judgments"
ReplyDeleteSteve, I've come to respect your opinion, and I understand why you say Nick at the point is just fancy. But I have to ask, you really see us having any shot against a 1 or 2 seed in the tournament with Luptak and Danny at the point? Not that we'd have a great shot against a 1 or 2 in general, but especially with those two at the point?
ReplyDeleteB^3:
ReplyDeleteI love the passion on this site about AU. I know everyone just wants to win and gets frustrated when the team loses. But I must say, in my opinion, you'd make a bad situation worse playing Nick at the point. He does not, by temprament, talent or approach to the game, have any of the characteristics you want in a good point guard. Yes, he's a good athlete, but that means next to nothing when it comes to running a team. And you do need someone to run a team; you can't just put the "five best players" out there and see what happens. What if your five best players are all big men? Or point guards, for that matter?
What I offer is an opinion, and is not meant to be critical of the young man, who plays hard and gives his all:
Nick does not handle the ball well enough. We all know Danny and Steve's shortcomings, but they're much, much better on the ball. (Danny's problems stem from indecision, not ballhandling. He's not at all confident he's making the right decision, and ends up making no decision.) Nick can, at best, take a couple of dribbles. If you thought Danny struggled against Florida's press, well, it would be worse with Nick. We all know how JJ is when it comes to point guards and turnovers; Blake can't get on the court for this reason. This would be disastrous.
He is not a good passer. Ask yourself this: when is the last time you saw him execute a simply entry pass to either Lump or Vlad? Nothing spectacular; just get the ball from the wing into the paint. He can't do it. We leave dozens of points per game on the floor because we don't seem to have anyone who can do this. At his size, Nick should at least be able to see over defenders occasionally. But he doesn't. Or, at least, he hasn't so far.
He doesn't shoot it well enough, consistently, to even play what coaches call "two-guard front," where both the point and wing guards handle the ball, more or less, equally. If Nick were a 35+ percent shooter outside the arc, maybe you could have him initiate some of the offense, then float to the wings or the corner and be ready to accept a pass from Lump or Vlad. But he's a streak shooter. He can make two or three in a row, but not often enough to make defenses come out to guard him. If they had to do that, he could, conceivably, be able to shot fake and go by them. But until he becomes more of a consistent perimeter threat, they don't have to.
And, honestly--again, not meaning to be critical--Nick is just not enough of a leader, and that position requires some element of leadership. Luptak at least tries to do some of this, but is not talented enough to pull it off. Danny, again, is too spooked at the moment. Can't speak for Wayne or Blake but I think both have potential here. Nick seems, to me, to be kind of a brooder. When things go poorly, either through his own mistakes or bad fortune, he seems to withdraw rather than attack. And your point guard must be able to get others to do things that they occasionally don't want to do.
As for how far we could get in the tournament with Steve and/or Danny at the point--hey, let's get through December before we start talking about our prospects against Duke. We've got a lot--a lot--of work to do first. I'd love to be talking about this problem three months from now.
Let me add briefly, because I'm not trying to say he has no role on this team; I just don't think it's at point guard: what I do think Nick can be very, very good at is as a defensive wing, someone who can take on a McCollum or a Sugars and make them really work for their points. He has good feet and good timing. He's shown that he can defensive rebound from the two guard position. We've all seen his athletic ability on offense, but I think Nick could make his biggest contribution, this season, at the other end, much like Frank Borden (another really good athlete) did for the '08-'09 title team.
ReplyDeleteWell, I was encouraged in the preseason when JJ mentioned something about possibly going away from a traditional point guard. I was glad to read he was open in his thinking. That's important for a coach. I fear now that it is late in the game for a dramatic change, though I could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of our likelihood of putting up a fight against a super-power, I think our success will have to surmount limited PG production. Instead, I'd rather go for some ability to score off the bench. This means (but I can only guess) Hinkle developing as a forward and Brewer moving to the shooting guard spot. At this point it is still questionable how comfortably Brewer puts the ball on the floor as a guard. He is more hesitant than Hendra. But he is a lock-down style defender.
Offensively, Hendra has been very quiet at the start of games, with most of his production coming after the game has opened up a little. With a bit of space, he sees the court well and can maneuver to open up opportunities for others as well as himself.
There is some reason to believe that a team can be successful with a non-scoring point guard. Even the great national championship team from UNLV had a point guard that very rarely scored. Every season I see a successful upstart team with a limited point guard. Right now, Luptak is the best shot we have, like it or not.
NJJ and Steve, thanks very much for your analysis!
ReplyDeleteNJJ - I can see the merit to some of your points, but the one I really disagree with is that this year I think Hendra has really stepped up as a leader. I don't see the same brooding that we did in previous years. He's been really vocal as far as I've seen this year. Also, the "five best players" comment is one that comes directly from Jeff Jones, not from me. He's said at various points this season that with the depth this team has and the lack of a clear PG, he would consider just putting the best 5 on the court. I understand why it wouldn't work with 5 big men, etc. but if you were to put your "best 5" out there right now, it would include Hendra and not Munoz or Luptak.
Steve - I agree that we're going to have to surmount PG play, I'm just complaining that it seems like a lot to surmount. I think we've got the potential to have a really deep bench. If Tony can keep developing, you add him to Simon, Hinkle, and, increasingly, Fisher, to go with either Munoz or Luptak, whoever is on the bench. That's pretty good for a PL team. I agree that's the direction we're probably going to end up going.
I also agree, Steve, and am surprised, that Brewer has handled the ball so tentatively to this point. I thought he was going to demonstrate the ability to put it on the floor a little bit more than he has.
In any event, Hendra isn't going to become the PG. I know that, I think most people on here know that. We'll have to see how it goes. I'm pulling for Steve and Danny to make it so I have to stop complaining or risk looking like more of a jackass than I usually do.
This comment about Hinkle appeared in today's Washington Post:
ReplyDeleteHelp is on the way - Vanderbilt transfer Charles Hinkle becomes eligible next week - and Jones is hoping it grabs the players' attention.
Asked how Hinkle's arrival will impact the rotation, Jones said: "I don't know exactly, but I do hope that there are three or four guys who wonder the same thing. Practice is different from games [but] he has been our best player in practice for a while. More than anything I'm hoping he brings us a sense of toughness that we lack way too often."
Here is the link to the entire article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/05/AR2010120503619.html
If anything, it is encouraging to hear from JJ that Hinkle has been excelling in practice--hopefully, this success will transfer to game time as well. Now, the question is will Hinkle start against UMBC?
The rotation you see in the Brown game will most likely be the one throughout the PL season. Hendra is a free spirit, and a floor leader on this team. JJ will never play him at PG. Nice fan dreams, but not happening.
ReplyDeleteIs there one AU starter who could start for the Gators ? probably not, but perhaps not one Gator player could get into AU? I thought we played them tough and like the Villanova game 2 yrs. ago- they were bigger and stronger and eventually we get run down in the last 10 minutes.
Luptak had a much better game than Munoz yesterday. However i did not see him enter the paint, but perhaps missed it. According to my eyes the first AU PG dribble penetration entry into the "Blue Paint" at the V-Center was Munoz with 3:30 left in the game. Can you imagine no dribble entry into the paint for 37 minutes? I was there ! There is not much to do about the PG situation other than hope that W-3 gets better fast. Like i said before- right now Luptak and Munoz are backup PL point guards, let alone high D-1 pg's. So let's support their efforts and hope that their defense makes up for their offensive limitations.
"So let's support their efforts and hope that their defense makes up for their offensive limitations."
ReplyDeleteWorks for me, Boots.
And yes, 37 minutes without dribble entry from PGs is egregious.
in terms of getting into the paint, I saw this scenario repeatedly against Florida:
ReplyDelete1) AU player puts the ball on the floor.
2) Florida forward cuts off the baseline.
3) AU player reverses dribble, away from being trapped.
4) Florida forward scrambles to cover perimeter, intercept pass if possible.
5) outlet pass, back to the perimeter, end of play.
It should be:
4)Florida forward scrambles to perimeter - they really ran like mad to cover so much territory
5) AU player again reverses dribble to baseline which has just been vacated.
The key to good offense is to enter territory the opponent has just vacated. I suppose this is pretty elementary, but at the same time I'd like to see us be less predictable.
It's good to know that Hinkle is AU's best practice player; thanks for providing that link.
The comment about Hinkle is encouraging. Clearly a lot of our bets are hedged on the success of our transfers this year. Vlad set the bar very, very high last year by really breaking out in his first real game in a long time.
ReplyDeleteComparatively, Troy is taking a little longer to get back into the swing of things, and his quality of play continues to improve every game. His scoring average continues to increase and (at least from what I've seen) his ball handling skills are a little slower to shake off the rust, but are there - and there is no question he is the most athletic guy on the court most of the time.
As for Hinkle, even if he finds a happy medium between Vlad and Troy, we're in great shape. As JJ pointed out, practice definitely does not equal game play, otherwise there would be little point to the NCAA's transfer regulations. At the same time, JJ correctly identifies that we often lack a certain toughness that leads to being streaky. If Hinkle can provide what JJ says he is, then maybe we'll stop seeing as much of the Jekyll/Hyde game as we have been. If Hinkle is out to prove that he deserves a starting spot over guys that have been playing all year - and has been truly outplaying Vlad, Lump, Troy, Hendra, etc. in practice - then we're going to be dangerous.
Needless to say, PL play is going to be intense.
Wayne is the best PG on the team. He can handle the ball, drive to the basket, pass to the open man and make a jump shot. It's hard to showcase your talent or get into a rhythm if you're only playing a couple of minutes a game. With more playing time, AU will see a special PG in Wayne Simon.
ReplyDeleteto the last anonymous:
ReplyDeleteOk good friend of Wayne. All I know is that watching the Florida game on MASN I saw his first pass go straight to the benchwarmers of the other team. Great showcase. He definitely will be good if not great in the future, I just think he's still developing. I trust Coach Jones' ability to choose players to put on the court.
Kind of interesting re-reading these comments today . . .in additon to noting the incredible passion of our AU Bloggers for our Eagles . . .there seems to be a collective fervor about point guard play (which I am guilty of, as well) that is a bit odd in this instance when our best player (not a point guard, of course) shoots 1 for 9 from beyond the arc. What would the score have been if Vlad hit just 2 more of those, and the Gators did not convert those 2 misses to, let's say, one three pointer and one deuce. Is that an 11 point swing for an 8 point loss?? Not too bad a result, with just two more made baskets.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Haywood. It's a double-edged sword. If you have a player like Vlad in the PL, you run your offense through him and you reap the rewards. When he has a bad game, you reap the loss instead. Not much to be done about it. Vlad is still the PL's second-leading scorer.
ReplyDeletekeep good bad and ugly or at least something that breaks it into sections it makes it much more user friendly to read/ more interesting then just bullets keep it up!
ReplyDelete